Ben Sands • Sands Leadership

Ben Sands, founder of  Sands Leadership provides a unique type of executive coaching that focuses on building alignment across an organization, coaching business leaders together.  His tools are essential for maintaining organizational efficiencies through change and growth.  Ben shares his experience and perspective and offers some great insight to put to use in your business right away.  
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"I see this misalignment is the thing that we really as leaders need to be most aware of, and misalignment in these two specific categories: direction and strategy."

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Transcript

Brad Ebenhoeh: 0:09

Welcome to the Accountfully chat, episode three with Ben sands. How're you doing today, Ben?

Ben Sands: 0:15

I'm doing great, Brad. Thanks for having me.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 0:17

Awesome. Ben Sands is the CEO and founder of sands leadership sands leadership is an executive coaching and training company, located here in Charleston, South Carolina. I've known Ben for a little bit, and he's a colleague and a friend. And I'm really excited to have him on board for the Accountfully chat discussion today. Hi, Ben, give us a little background on sans leadership and what you do and who you serve, and how you can help companies and founders.

Ben Sands: 0:45

Thanks, Brad. Yes, I mean, super high level, we provide executive coaching and training, we work with teams with a goal just to help the teams work better together. So we've got sort of a unique model of executive coaching, we coach all the executives at the same time. And we believe really strongly that this is a very effective and efficient way to learn and grow together to build alignment across all aspects of the organization. And, you know, we're going to talk a lot about alignment here in our conversation today. But, but yeah, it's it's been I've been doing this now for about 12 years, I think you and I and Meredith met seven or eight years ago. But it's, it's it's just important work. There's there's a lot of men and women struggling to create and achieve the best outcomes that they're capable of creating and achieving. And that's ultimately what we're we're in business to do is really to help these men and women perform at their highest and best level so that the organization grows in a healthy and consistent way.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 1:56

Yes, exactly. Love it. And as we were chatting when we, as we as I said, Ben as we've known him for a decade or whatever, but he, him it is his company sands leadership did present to Accountfully, a handful years ago, and we thought it invaluable from from the leadership and some of the concepts you chatted on. So we wanted to kind of touch base, in have you on the Accountfully chat here, which the audience is, you know, business owners, founders, entrepreneurs, anybody in business, anybody that just wants to learn and grow, right? As I've been, you know, engaged with various entrepreneurs around the country, the last several years on the sales side of our clients in various networking events, conversations that I have, like one thing and as well as being a entrepreneur myself with having Accountfully for over a decade here, is literally–one thing from a small business mindset, or even a middle sized businesses is change, right? The one thing is constant is changed, not even just on the business side, but on the life side. And what as we were talking about, about identifying some, you know, solutions for change, and how to mitigate risk, when circumstances change that you plan for, I thought it was great to have you on. And we're looking forward to chatting on that and to step back a little bit. If we just look at the last several years. From a change standpoint, how it has impacted business, I've listed off a handful, which is it's been crazy the last several years. Right. And one is, you know, COVID, lock downs, you know, the impact on small businesses, PPP funding, EIDL funding, right? Well, that completely dramatically changed things. Locking down supply chains for inventory based companies. Right to the next aspect of changes completely changed the workforce, right? Work from home now. Hybrid workforce now what do we do? Are we having going back to face to face work? And are people going to employees gonna say no, or employers can say no. So, you know, that's an aspect of change from a leadership perspective. Additionally, then, you know, the employees similar to that concept had a ton of leverage, as about a year after COVID hit in terms of jumping jobs and market opportunities with their own employment and transitioning between jobs because literally, the supply of employees exploded to each business because everybody was remote. So instead of just looking locally, in your company, you are everywhere, right? So people jumped in, and it was easy for employees to get a new job. You know, and the most recent form of change of mind for small businesses specifically is the economic climate specifically related to like interest rates, the credit markets have been tightened down less access to capital to raise your money or to raise money for your company to to grow your company to scale your company to the next level. So as we kind of look back on this change of from just a pure, geopolitical, you know, overall, like lifestyle change from COVID, to then employer, employee labor market, changes to, you know, to credit market changes and all that stuff. So, as you can see, there's some example of change and variables that have happened to small businesses. So as I've engaged in my audience and to our clients, our prospective clients or network, like, clearly everybody has responded differently, reacted emotionally differently, you know, either went out of business or maybe excelled or maybe been in the middle. So this is kind of the forefront of the topic that I want to touch base on, as you know, you know, handing this off to you, Ben in terms of identifying, you know, ways for leaders to become better leaders and to help serve their business better through constant change, because we know something else is gonna change in 12 months anyway. So let's just prepare ourselves for it.

Ben Sands: 5:30

Yeah, I mean, constant changes, if it feels more acute right now, it just feels like every that feels like the ground is just shifting under everyone's feet. But in reality, Brad, you know, our work–work and world–is defined by constant change. And one of the things that I always remind my leaders is that it's not the change or the disruption that kills companies. It is the resulting misalignment caused by that change or caused by that disruption that ultimately kills. I mentioned that word before. And I come back to this all the time, right, the challenge that we as leaders face is to maintain alignment, you know, despite all of both the changing environmental factors and headwinds that we're that we're experiencing, and I typically find, Brad that you see misalignment in two general directions or two general areas. Number one, is the direction, right is like, you know, our understanding, like what does success look like? And by when, and this is an important like, is that by when is really, really important, right? So success, what does it mean? Like, specifically, what are we trying to achieve? And then what's the timeframe that we have to achieve that outcome? And very often, like, change unfolds, change occurs. And you know that that resilience, that toughness that lives in each one of us often says, well, by golly, I don't care what we're dealing with, we're still gonna get to that goal that we set a month ago, six months ago, a year ago, you know, change be danged, right? I mean, I don't care about the change. And in reality, like you do need to recalibrate, oftentimes regularly to ensure that our definition of success still make sense in the context of the new environment that we're operating in. Right, so that the first area of misalignment is direction, right, we got a clear on what success looks like, and you know, how much time we have to achieve it? And then second, it's a strategy misalignment. Right? Once we know, you know, we can know what success looks like if you know what we're trying to do. But we can all agree a vast amount of misalignment on the strategy, meaning specifically how we're going to get there. And again, that is not that's not, you know, specific to this particular time in history. It is a constant process of clarifying and testing new ideas and then assessing, you know, is this working or not, and then, you know, recalibrating. So I see this misalignment is the thing that we really as leaders need to be most aware of, and misalignment in these two specific categories, direction and strategy.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 8:21

Gotcha. That's a good starting point, couple of follow ups from my end number one, misalignment. To be clear, this can be amongst various stakeholders, right? Partners in a business, CEO versus investors of their company, CEO versus the Board of the company's CEO versus employees or C level executives, managers, middle managers, and their, you know, direct reports, right? Is that that kind of what you're saying it can encompass every aspect of of relationships?

Ben Sands: 8:50

Yeah, and let's throw in one more for good measure internal misalignment, right? We've all been there where, like, one part of us wants to do x, and the other part says, "No, it's too soon", or "that's too fast", or "that's too", you know, whatever, right. So we get even have internal misalignment that we need to address. So yeah, like all of those various stakeholders require, you know, or as leader, right, it is essential that you create alignment across all those various stakeholders. Now, not all stakeholders are equal, right? Not all stakeholders are equal. One of your jobs as leader is to decide, you know, whose opinion matters most. And again, I see leaders getting torn up, you know, tied in knots over really trying to be everything to everyone and make everybody happy. And that's one of the first things realization when you live through change, right is to recognize that at the end of the day, right, I have to do what is right right in the context of the business. And then as leader you have to define in a way prioritize the stakeholders that you are looking and working to serve. Some times leaders don't like to hear that, but but in reality, you have to decide.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 10:06

And then before going to the next step, so then would it be then safe to say that because information is traveling so fast these days, and then the processing of data and everything, again, is so like infinitely expansive than it used to be that because of that, like the misalignment can is can be, I guess, what is it much faster these day? Or it can happen very fast. And it was to fall off, like within a day versus maybe, you know, a decade or three decades ago, maybe it took a week or two to fall off. Right? So yeah, like, Is that safe to say? Like, it's just everything's faster these days. So identifying it, and being more agile is very important on identifying misalignment?

Ben Sands: 10:45

Yeah, you know, so interesting, we have a lot more data available to us. And in theory, that's great, right, we got data. And Mike described that as sort of an objective version of the truth. But we have so much data now that the pendulum has almost shifted, where it's become very, very hard to differentiate the signal from the noise. Yeah. And so all having all this data in one hand, should help, right, create more alignment, here's what's happening, here's why it's happening. And here's what we're gonna do about it. But for most organizations, especially small to medium sized businesses, you know, we're still running the company, right, we're still building the product, we're still selling the product. And so it can be hard to then also, at the same time, kind of process the higher level data to say, okay, yes, we are moving in the right direction, or no, we need to move in a different direction, and ultimately build consensus among the various stakeholders that you just identified. So it's, it's ironic, because despite having all this data, we don't always dig into the data, certainly not, you know, in a bid or something, it's hard to figure out exactly what the data is telling us. And so it doesn't necessarily beget more misalignment, right, because some folks just don't actually care or look at what the data is telling. But the data is hugely important to creating the long term kind of alignment that we're talking about the essential kind of alignment that you need to survive in these kinds of environments.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 12:23

Perfect. All right, let's move on to the next aspect of this chat that would discuss misalignment. So then how can we mitigate misalignment? How can we promote alignment?

Ben Sands: 12:37

Well, you know, there's no silver bullet here, right? But if you are a leader, and you're saying, "hey, what can I do to set my company up for long term lasting success?", What I often describe as healthy high performance, I am going to encourage you as leader not to focus necessarily on like the short term goals yet, right? The most important area to invest, as a leader of building a business that you want to grow and scale over time, is to invest in the operating system of the business. Now, what is the operating system, it's really like this small set of habits and practices that allow the business to determine where it is, where it's going, and what it has to do to get there. And this operating system is so important. It's how the business behaves, how decisions are made, how we do what we do. And you know, every company has an operating system, right? Every company has an operating system. Most companies are not intentionally building that operating system to optimize for the outcomes that they're after. And so when thing all heck breaks loose, the first place to look is have we put in place a set of systems that will allow us to continue to move forward despite the uncertainty despite the ambiguity of the current environment? And if the answer is no, or I'm not sure, then you know, that's the that's the first place to start.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 14:02

Gotcha. And this system can be a set of principles. It can be the system that you use, on the back end of your business, it can be systems you use to get customers, it can be like this can again encompass all different ins and outs and information sharing and data points on the people management sides on the client management side. Is that correct?

Ben Sands: 14:25

Yes, it can. And it does include all that stuff. I like to really simplify it, Brad, you know, into roughly five steps, right? Number one is clarifying the company vision. Now you're gonna hear this word, you say, Oh, I got a vision or I know what the vision. I just want to clarify what I mean by vision. A vision is a three year description of the impact and outcomes that you're trying to create. Unlike many of the visions that I see companies having right this is not like a pie in the sky. rainbows and unicorns kind of vision it A very detailed, best guess as to where we want to be in three years time, impact and outcomes. That's the first and it's really the most important piece first step in his operating system. Because if you don't, where are you going? How are you ever going to get there? Right. And that's what that vision is just to say, like, this is where we are going. And then all of the decision making in the organization can ultimately, you know, come back and align to that vision, the vision becomes the the our way of kind of pressure testing, is this next decision that we're considering this investment, this employee, this new product line, is it Do we believe that this is likely to get us to that vision more quickly than if we didn't do that right, or if we did otherwise. So the vision is the first thing from a three year vision, then you start to set 90 Day goals, right. And these are going to us follow that kind of smart model, right? But very specific, outcome focused goals, I often like to use and encourage my clients to use a simple framework from x to y by z, a good goal is often going to be written in that very specific and simple framework, where x is the starting line, y is the finish line, and z is the deadline. And typically, the z should always align to the end of the quarter, it's easier to kind of keep keep track of things. And then you're going to drop in so we get you know, that's the general sense of here's where we're going. And then the operating system is really how do we make progress against those goals on a quarterly basis? And that comes down to I spent a lot of time just thinking about how well are we managing our time? And specifically, you know, are we you know, are we meeting well, right, many companies wasting an absurd or obnoxious amount of time in low value meetings, right meetings should be the most important time spent in your organization, you should be solving real problems, right? doing real work in those meetings. That's part of the operating system, how we meet when we meet what we talk about when we meet? And then ultimately, how do we create an ongoing cadence of accountability? Right? How do we ensure that we are making progress every day, and every week, right towards the goals that we set. And then the last piece of an operating system good operating system is gonna be some form of review. And I recommend my client companies at least once every 90 days, you're pulling up and simply asking what went well? what didn't go so well? What did we learn? And based on all that information, what are we going to do going forward? So really just five elements, I mean, there's a whole bunch of other stuff baked in there, but five things you got to get right? Setting a vision, setting good goals, creating a cadence of meeting and accountability, and ultimately, embedding a review and learning process into the way you operate. I

Brad Ebenhoeh: 17:52

love it. I always, I think Sprint's short term reassessment is key, I see it from our end, from an accounting finance perspective, people putting five year models in place that are just pie in the sky, or if you watch Shark Tank, here's my forecast. And like, this is the dumbest opera like it's so like, what is it? What does this give you like it clearly yes, this is great, but there's zero chance you ever gonna execute at that specific level? So I think I love the short term I love I love the the reassessment, but also, like, what if your entire operating system just isn't good? Or what if like, this process in place is like, Well, my vision isn't right. My goals, my objectives aren't right. Like, like, how do you how does that work?

Ben Sands: 18:36

What if you got a crappy plan? Right? I'm one of my favorite quotes. Mike Tyson. Right, everyone had a plan to beat me until I punched him in the face. We get punched in the face, every single day as leaders of businesses right back to

Brad Ebenhoeh: 18:48

the chain. Right? That's

Ben Sands: 18:50

always bad. But Brad, you've seen this right? Companies spending massive amount of time and energy creating what I described as the perfect plan, right, the off site retreat, you know, hold them hands, Kumbaya, we got this, like beautiful thing, maybe we got to, you know, images, it's like pictured on the wall. And literally, within, you know, 3060 90 days, the whole thing is obsolete, because something has changed in that market. Like we can't go like we have to expect or assume that a things are gonna change and be that we probably didn't put together the perfect plan. Right, but not having the perfect plan is not an excuse not to take action. And that's the difference, right? These are the teams that really survive and thrive in these environments. Brad, are just embrace that reality that hey, we probably don't have this exactly right. But that's okay. Because we've got a system set up that will allow us to move forward. And if in fact, we're not on track, right, if in fact, it's not the right direction, our system will catch the issue right will ensure that we don't get too far down a path such that we're now feeling an enormous amount of regret and Dealing with sort of sunk cost fear. And you know, that kind of what I call mind trash that tends to set in. So yeah, I mean, five year plan here, someone's five year plan, I always say like, Hey, I'm going to save get two years on that five year plan. How's that sound? Right? And everybody loves when I go talk to leaders about this, everybody gets the three year versus the five year, right, three years is long enough to get just about anything accomplished. But it's short enough that you've got to get started now, how often have you seen, you know, companies, again, offset retreat, consultants creating this five year vision, and it's literally like a year prep, to get started executing against the vision. And by the time you even start, that vision is obsolete. So I really encourage a less intensive form of, of defining and shaping strategic direction. And really, again, investing heavily in making sure that our ability to execute is

Brad Ebenhoeh: 21:02

as good as it can be. Yeah, it's, uh, you know, the, I think at Accountfully, what we've done here is very, like we've moved fast enough, but organically enough to where it's been kind of a minimal viable product aspect of what you're talking about here. We're not sitting here writing books or Bibles or, you know, having 1000 meetings and what does our OS are our policies and conversation or documentation, but we know what our vision is, we know what our objectives are. And then we're meeting consistently on this stuff. And guess what, when we have to change or like to your concept of I think organizational debt here, like policy out the door, we need to iterate and change because now employees want to work from home. And employees, as long as you know, the there are finite resources of our and if they're talented, and then get the work done, does that really matter? Versus coming to the office? You know, that's just an aspect of like, alright, iterate, change, boom, implement new policies. So I think I love about this concept that we're chatting anything else on organizational debt before we move on?

Ben Sands: 22:00

No, I just, I just wanted to just for the folks who are listening, you just used the term that might not be all that well understood. But it's really an important idea. And that's this idea of a minimum viable product. And this concept came from a book called The Lean Startup. And it was this exploration as to like, what do you know, the most successful startup companies do differently than everybody else? And in that book, there's one wonderful example. And that's Zappos. Do you remember the Zappos example? Brad, I don't know if you. But just for the audience here, it's such a great example, right? This some crazy guy thought it was a good idea to sell shoes on the internet, and 99 out of 100, probably 100, out of 100, people that he pitched this idea to, we're like, you're insane, nobody's going to buy a pair of shoes that they can't first try on. And yet he felt that he's like, I think this can work. So he's going to the market, nobody's given them any money. And so he comes up decides to create a minimum viable product. So at that point, and this is, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago, it's a while back, right? So he goes in, he builds a website, then it goes downstairs, there's a shoe company, shoe store, in the building that he was working in, goes in, starts taking pictures of the shoes on the shelf, goes back, uploads these pictures onto his website, it says shoes for sale.com, right, something like that. And, and puts it out there as a test to see if anyone actually will buy shoes on the internet. And lo and behold, the orders started to come in. And at the time, I just love it. Because he would literally if an order came in, he'd go downstairs to the shoe store, buy the shoes himself, pack them in a box and send them out, you know, he lost money on these initial transactions. But what he gained was the credibility and belief that this idea could actually work. Fast forward, you know, 10 years from that point. And Zappos is sold to Amazon for a billion dollars. That's what I it's a great example of a minimum viable product, what's the minimum amount you can or need to do in order to validate your assumptions about what people will or won't do? And Brad, I just see so many companies agonizing over what's the specific or perfect next step? My encouragement is always hey, let's try it doesn't it doesn't have to be perfect. Let's just get out there and try it. You know, maybe prioritize, buy things that are lowest cost and easiest to test. But get out there and start testing these ideas. Sadly, nobody's got a crystal ball. Nobody really knows. And so again, if you have a system that allows you to test new ideas, and quickly get feedback and validate those ideas is either something to double down on and continue to invest in or something to say, hey, we tried it, it didn't work. That's again, that's where the system becomes so essential.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 24:49

yeah, I think there's a there's just an overall block and some people of just execution people just don't like to execute and try things and it's just like, hypotheticals, conversations, meetings...and it's like, "no, let's go" let's execute and see what happens. And if it sucks throughout the door, let's move on. If it's great, awesome, if it's in the middle, iterate, move on adjust and go. But yes, great, great, great concept. And I do think it's about being valued like our organization. And as we move forward. So last thing I want to kind of touch on, so we talked about misalignment, we talked about organizational operating system. And then what about just looking at the individual, like, what one of the things that the individual can do from you know, their habits, behaviors, etc. To help facilitate I'll what we've talked about?

Ben Sands: 25:37

Yeah. Oh, Brad, I'm so glad you asked about this. This is we missed this. Because it's that again, it's not that sexy. And you say, like nobody likes to execute, I often say like, nobody likes to do the boring stuff. But like, what Elon Musk call his holding company, the boring one of the most dynamic companies in the history of the world, right? Boring company. And I think Kizzy gets it right. The the boring stuff is what is what matters the most. And, you know, I can I admit, I am guilty of this, as much as any CEO or founder that I work with just strategy and coming up with new ideas is sexy, it's exciting. It's fun, right? The execution, the blocking and tackling is the kind of stuff I don't really run to. And yet, it's the it's that boring stuff that makes all the difference in terms of the outcomes that you create over time. And this is where, you know, come back to the, you know, the individual. And again, I say it's overlooked. Brad, there's no a lot of companies are talking about how do we create a winning culture? How do we create like the best place to work, I love that. And I love that, that instinct and that inspiration all day, like, please invest on building an amazing culture. There's that old quote, culture beats strategy every day. And that is absolutely true. But there's one thing that you need to keep in mind, as you spend time conceiving of the perfect workplace, identifying the perfect blend of benefits and perks, you know, to attract and retain your team. Remember this, that no 401k Matching Program, no free lunch or other company perk can outweigh the negative costs and consequences of a bad personal operating system. The most important drivers of the performance of your team is often the stuff that is happening outside the four walls of work, right. And I use this as an example. Not literally, but you know, just as an example, you can have the perfect company culture, the perfect organization, right. But when an employee leaves that, you know, your, you know, the Office for the day, if they go home, and they party all night, don't sleep awake, right and roll back into your organization at eight o'clock the next day, it doesn't matter what kind of culture you have created or conceived, that individual is not going to perform at his or her highest and best level, right? So we really have to meet people where they are, we have to meet our employees where they are, and help them to understand that just like great companies, great personal performance depends on your systems, right? What you how you create this, you can series of habits and practices that you personally live by, or you know, and live your life by. And so I just give you a couple of examples of things that I see again, for folks who are listening in here, things to be looking for, in and among your your employees. Brad, let me start with a question for you. Right, if you had to guess. When most professionals right, in any given organization, when they show up at work, and they sit down at their desk, what do most professionals do? What's the first thing that most professional men and women do to start their day?

Brad Ebenhoeh: 29:03

When they sit at their desk already?

Ben Sands: 29:05

Yeah, when they sit down to start their day, they probably

Brad Ebenhoeh: 29:09

look at their cell phone and check their social media and their text messages.

Ben Sands: 29:13

Oh, gosh, hopefully it's not social media. But that's like the next level, right? What I find is that most will say I opened my inbox right and start reading in response to seeing I want to see what's in my inbox. Brad, you've heard it, you know it, you know this reality, right? Just across all your client companies. You've probably seen a little bit of at Accountfully as well. There's a lot of men and women that are feeling exhausted, overwhelmed and burned out right now. I like to jokingly and lovingly tell these men and women and I always take a poll in my coaching programs. I'm always getting like a survey of like, how are people starting their day 85% Of the men and women with whom I work before they go through my coaching program, of course. check their email within 15 minutes of waking up, not just getting to work, but of waking up and another, you know, there's some selection of that population that likes to joke, they don't even get out of bed, right? They don't even get out of bed before they're looking at their email inbox. And, you know, I like to again lovingly and jokingly say, like, if you want to, if you want to guarantee or accelerate the speed at which you feel exhausted, overwhelmed and burned out, check your email first thing in the morning, your email inbox, and Brad you know this to be your email inbox is somebody else's to do list, your email inbox is somebody else's to do list, right? So that's how most of us 85% of these, like manager plus level leaders are waking up and saying, "Hey, what does everybody else in the world want me to do today?" Right? Is it any surprise that most of these men and women are getting to the end of the day saying, Oh, my gosh, I just worked my tail off all day long. And I didn't get any of my most important stuff done. And that's where like, I like to say, again, lovingly and jokingly, that's on you. Right? That's an that's a personal operating system flaw. Right? You are trying to be responsive, you are trying to care about others, and serve others and support others. And that is awesome. Except that you have made the number one mistake of all mistakes is, you know, the whole airline thing, you didn't put your oxygen mask on first, you didn't get your most important work done first. Right? You can't give what you don't have. And so, you know, simply put, you know, good personal operating system almost inevitably starts with some amount of planning. And I recommend five minutes, right? I give people got little give people a little planning sheet, right takes five minutes to fill this thing out. Quick reflection on how yesterday went? Well, what were where did I win yesterday, which allows you to build them a little momentum coming into the day, you know, ahead. And then a simple identification of the most important things you need to get done today. Right. And then of course, when you get into the details, again, this is the operating system. Once you have a plan, then you've got to go start allocating time and energy, right. So I'll, my clients will take that plan, and then immediately go into their calendar and block the time they need to execute on those most important priorities, that does two things, one massively improves the chance that their most important stuff will get done. But two, and this is really important for compassionate, caring leaders. It allows people it gives them an opportunity to say no with kindness, because a lot of the executives I work with, they don't have their calendar, they don't have a day planned out, right. And as a result, when somebody comes to them asking for help, they feel compelled to say yes to that request. And it's all goes back to the fact that it's it's really hard to say no to someone who's asking you for help. Unless you're intentionally saying yes to something else. Right? So if you come to me and say, Hey, Ben, Can I Can you? Can I get five minutes, 10 minutes, just take a look at something real quick. If I don't have something else on my calendar that I was already going to do at the time, when I'm asked for that help, basically, in order to say no, I have to say, Well, I'm not going to help you. Because while I don't know exactly what is more important than you at this moment in time, I know that something or someone is more important than you at this moment in time. So see you later, right, get lost, it doesn't work that way. So, these little elements of just two little examples of what you know, better operating system or how the operating system the individual operating system plays such an important role in in not just individual performance, but ultimately maps back directly to the performance of the team and ultimately the organization.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 33:47

Love that goes back to back to the individual. And I remember my cousin at one point told me that from an individual, you know, aspect, you are the CEO of your own life, you know what I'm saying? So it's very applicable to this where, hey, individually, you're the CEO, you need to do the same things interpersonally, individually to then facilitate team wide success and organizational success and the whole nine yards. So I feel like you just give me a pep talk. I'm gonna go grab that helmet off the back cabinet there and run through the tunnel.

Ben Sands: 34:23

Hey, can I just say one thing though? And speaking to you and Meredith, right? Obvouslt have this unique and amazing partnership. You've grown this company together, right? You know, side by side? Well, you know, you are CEO of your own life, but you are if you are married, you're in a long term committed relationship. You are the Co- CEO of your family as well. And, you know, again, just like you know, partying all night does not set you up for maximum performance at work. You know, if if you're if your relationship is is if you're going through a difficult time in your relationship, right or If you're children, right, if you have children or not, are struggling, right, we bring that stuff too into the organization, whether we want to or not, right? It comes with us. And so I am often quick to remind my the leaders that with whom I work, that so many of the things that we sort of take for granted and know to work in terms of bringing a team together and working better, better together, also work at home. So, you know, case in point, my wife and I have a weekly team meeting, where we just get aligned on what matters most and what matters least, and do our best to set expectations and better understand the expectations of our spouse. And again, it seems sort of obvious and self evident. But you know, most of the leaders with whom I work, when I share that with them, they're always like, oh, man, yeah, of course, we should do that. And why don't we do that? You know, typically, because because it gets lost in the shuffle. Of all the other stuff that we've got competing for our time and attention.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 36:03

Absolutely, it's a kind of everything you've mentioned, here really is, is very much common sense. It's just so much, so much noise so much, you know, just everything else coming to life. And a lot of times people just don't want to do it. But this was a great chat, man, I really appreciate it. So again, you know, for the audience out there, we discussed that, you know, change is constant, right? And society individually, within your families everywhere, right. And the ways to kind of minimize at a high level a couple of points is minimizing misalignment, having some sort of organization or individual operating system. And on top of that, having that personal accountability, and proper habits and behaviors to help support facilitate all that. So then, before we leave, I'll give you a shout out for your your program and everything you can you can tell but for the listeners today, what is the one thing just one thing for them to do? You know, to execute on after listening to on this chat?

Ben Sands: 37:07

Yeah, the number the highest level thing is simply be intentional, right? Don't Don't sleepwalk, right? Yeah, I know you're a leader of the company. It's not like you're ever sleepwalking. But I want you to take a moment right now, as you're listening to this or after you're listening to this just to pull up and say, what are we really trying to build here? What are we really trying to create what matters most? And what matters least? And you as leader? Once you can answer that those those essential questions, then your job as leader is to spread that share that as broadly and consistently as you possibly can. Because the more men and women that understand your view of the world understand what matters most and what matters least to you, the more likely it is that you and they will achieve the outcomes that you're after.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 37:55

Love it be intentional. Perfect. So as we begin to hear as much as give a damn perfectly exactly give a damn, I love it. So as we as we leave here, where can the audience members find you? What are you doing recently? Or lately? Or where can they find some motivation from Ben Sands?

Ben Sands: 38:15

Yeah, well, you know, I'm not a big motivational guy. Again, it's all about execution, I can get you fired up in a short, short amount of time. But over the long term, it's all about repetition and mastery, right? It's about doing the basic boring things well, and consistently over time, right? It really is. Success in business and life, you know, comes down to the doing the basic stuff, well, if they want to, if you want to track me down, sandsleadership.com is my website, you can email me at Ben@sandsleadership.com, I get a huge appetite for talking through what's going on in individual or given companies. You know, you know, for those who want to work together, you know, I've got a eight week, executive coaching bootcamp that you go through with your team. It's a really cool program allows you to create and sustain alignment first and foremost, but then ultimately, to implement some of these I the ideas that I share, to upgrade the operating system of your company. And, of course, just as important, upgrade your own personal operating system. So we can talk more and find more about all that at sandsleadership.com.

Brad Ebenhoeh: 39:22

Love it. All right, Ben. Ben Sands, my friend and colleague. Thanks for your time. Really appreciate it. Have a good one.

Ben Sands: 39:30

My pleasure, Brad. Thanks for having me.